The Manhattan District Attorney! -With Alvin Bragg

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello everyone and welcome to the New Yorker is a podcast by New York City Cop. I'm your host, Kelly Kopp, published photographer, New York City tour business owner, content creator, podcaster and above all else, New Yorker. Ladies and gentlemen, the next [00:00:16] Speaker B: Brooklyn found train in Mount Biden. Stand clear of the closing doors, please. [00:00:36] Speaker C: This is times square or sydney street. Transfer the General to the shuttle to Grand Cathedral. [00:00:55] Speaker A: With me today, everybody. I have civil servant Alvin Bragg. Alvin has served as the Chief Deputy Attorney General at the New York State Attorney General's Office and as an Assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. At New York Law School, he was visiting professor of law and the co director of the Racial Justice Project. Elvin is currently the Manhattan District Attorney, or DA for short. But above all else, he is a New Yorker. Hey, Elvin, welcome to the show. How you doing today? [00:01:27] Speaker D: I am doing great. I'm excited to be here and talk about all things New York. Thanks for having me. [00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. Yeah, we're just really excited to have you on the show. So that means a lot. So thank you, my friend. So I'm really excited to talk to you and ask you a lot of questions because you have a very interesting life. So let's start from the beginning. You were born in. Where were you born, my friend? [00:01:50] Speaker D: I was born right here on the island of Manhattan. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Nice. [00:01:53] Speaker D: And really haven't. My wife likes to joke I've moved 20 blocks in 50 years and that's like kind of true to the block. So. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Nice. [00:02:01] Speaker D: Born, born in Manhattan. Started out in Harlem, Central Harlem and still live in central Harlem now. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Nice. I'm right above you. I'm in the heights. [00:02:11] Speaker D: All right. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:12] Speaker D: I, I, I've, I've bounced around a little bit. So I used to live up 150 person Broadway. That's [00:02:18] Speaker A: nice. [00:02:19] Speaker D: Furthest north. I've gone [00:02:20] Speaker A: just a little bit above that. Yeah. Do you take the subway? [00:02:23] Speaker D: I periodically take the subway. I certainly take it a little, little less now than I used to, but you know, growing up. Well, growing up, I was just, just talking with some transit workers yesterday. I was at M10 and M7. [00:02:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:40] Speaker D: Got me from Harlem to school and then two, three every once in a while. The AC. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:48] Speaker D: Those were, those were my, my, my commuting option. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Yep. I'm the A guy mostly. [00:02:52] Speaker D: Well, if you live, I mean, when I lived. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:54] Speaker D: On 151st and Broadway. That, that 59th Street. 125th Street. No stop. A and D is gold. [00:03:03] Speaker A: You know, the A just cruising along or the D Just cruising along. You know, one time I was on the train, this is just last year. It's a good memory of sitting on the train. It was from 1 from 59 to 125 and these kids were playing a song, you know, and I asked them to turn it up. They thought I said turn it down. So I turned it off. I'm like, no, turn it up. And then it was a Saturday night, late, packed and just cruising along. It was, I'm like, this is a beautiful New York moment. Do you miss taking the subway a lot or. [00:03:28] Speaker D: I do, actually. I really like, I like the subway. I also like the bus. I think the bus is underrated. People don't talk about the bus. Obviously if you're going a long distance, the train is better. But if you're doing something right, you know, in the neighborhood. And I also think, you know, walking, I, I, I often will, you know, go on the neighborhood stroll, which, you know, maybe in years past I would have jumped on the bus for the like 25, but now, particularly in weather like today, you know, a great, a great New York City walk. Get to sort of see, get it, get, get it, get it, get a sense, get to get the feel of what's going on in the neighborhood. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Yep. I love Harlem though. Some of my favorite neighborhoods do. What was it like growing up in Harlem? Can you tell us about that A little? [00:04:10] Speaker D: Sure. I mean, look, I'm, I am, you know, kind of Harlem all day long. So I don't really know anything, anything different. And I'm a Manhattan exceptionalist and I love Harlem to the core. It was, it was great, you know, vibrant community, [00:04:27] Speaker A: tight [00:04:27] Speaker D: knit block. I grew up on, you know, [00:04:29] Speaker A: this is the 70s and 80s. [00:04:31] Speaker D: So yeah, I was, I was born in 73, I'm 53 and so, you know, a little bit out and about in the 70s, but under a very watchful eye of my parents 80s, you know, a lot of, you know, basketball on the block and moving around by myself with my friends around the neighborhood and it's just a vibrancy that was great. You know, you could do everything within, you know, you know, five blocks or you didn't have to go far. You could, you could see all your friends, play all your sports. And of course, from my perspective, from what I do, I look back, it was, when you compare it to now, particularly nowhere near as safe as we are now. So I look back sometimes. [00:05:20] Speaker A: I didn't [00:05:20] Speaker D: live [00:05:20] Speaker A: here in the 70s and 80s and I wish I did, but go ahead with the 70s and 80s. It wasn't safe. [00:05:26] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, well, I would say, like, you didn't think about sort of, you know, it was, it was. I was a kid, we were fun. We're having fun. But there were certain things that you. You baked into your life that when I look back on, it's not particularly natural and isn't good. So, like, okay, I'm not gonna go down that block at this time because, you know, I know that's not a good block to go down. Or. Hey, I mean, I mentioned the, the. The A. From 59th to 125th, the 2, [00:05:50] Speaker A: 3. [00:05:51] Speaker D: You know, from 96 to 110th, there was a, you know, there was a time where that, that was. There was a group that, that ran that stretch. And so you be careful during some of the after school hours. And so I look back and I think about, wow. Like that, you know, we were thinking about things that were normal. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:08] Speaker D: For us, but they were. They were not good. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Correct. [00:06:11] Speaker D: And obviously we have a lot more work to do on public safety. But when I, when I compare then to now, I mean, I'll tell you, we had a cold case we were looking back on from 1993, and we went and interviewed some witnesses, and they basically said, which homicide? We can't remember which one you're talking [00:06:33] Speaker A: about. Wow. [00:06:34] Speaker D: And so even though I lived through it, I said, let me look back. And so I went and looked at the homicides in that precinct. And that year there were 50. There were 51 in all of Manhattan last year. And so even having lived through that, I think there's a little bit of a sort of romantic. You want to romanticize it a little bit. And there was a lot that was fun about it, but there was a lot that should not be normalized. And I'm happy that we've moved to safer days, mindful that we still have a lot more work to do. [00:07:05] Speaker A: I only know New York City as it is today. In my opinion. I think it's safe. I never worry about my safety. I'm on the subway all the time, morning, noon and night. So I don't know the New York that you grew up in. You know, and I some. Sometimes I wish I did experience New York. You know, I'm a little bit older than you, but I, you know, I wish I had experienced. I lived here at the time that you did too, just to see the change myself and how much better, in my opinion, it is today. So it is much better today, correct? As [00:07:36] Speaker D: you [00:07:37] Speaker A: just said, [00:07:37] Speaker D: definitely. In terms of safety There's. There's no doubt. I do think that, you know, I missed some things about the. You know, you think about it like that there was an energy, you know, the sort of the birth of hip hop. I'm. [00:07:50] Speaker A: I was born the same [00:07:51] Speaker D: year as hip [00:07:51] Speaker A: hop. [00:07:53] Speaker D: And while other boroughs can make claims to its origin, Harlem certainly was instrumental to its early years, and it was more affordable. I [00:08:03] Speaker A: mean, [00:08:04] Speaker D: I do think, you know, the affordability crisis we're in now. And, yeah, I've certainly have friends who've, you know, felt the pinch and moved to, you know, not just New [00:08:13] Speaker A: York, though. You know what I mean? [00:08:14] Speaker D: No, that's right. That's right. That's right. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker D: My worldview doesn't go much past New York, so, you know, if it's. [00:08:19] Speaker A: But I love that, you know. [00:08:20] Speaker D: Yeah, [00:08:20] Speaker A: I love that. Well, tell us about your parents. Tell us their names and were they strict parents and did they let you run around or were they. How were they as parents? [00:08:28] Speaker D: So Sadie and Alvin. So I'm. I'm a. I'm a namesake, [00:08:32] Speaker A: you know, I love [00:08:33] Speaker D: that. My. My. My dad, as a parent, would like to, I think, play it cool. Didn't outwardly worry a lot, but he was certainly attentive. My mom, they're both from a small town in Virginia, Petersburg, Virginia. And so the city was different for them, which I think led to, particularly on my mom's part, sort of a hyper vigilance. They used to joke on the block that she would be outside cleaning up, just coincidentally and conveniently around, you know, when school let out, like, kind of looking around, seeing how it was coming. It was the big joke on the block. So she was. I was. Both my parents have passed away, but I was thinking about them just yesterday, talking with other parents about, [00:09:16] Speaker A: you [00:09:16] Speaker D: know, the phones. Now we have these apps. You can trap kids everywhere. There. You went off to school and, you know, you came home when you came home. [00:09:23] Speaker A: I remember those things [00:09:23] Speaker D: right. [00:09:24] Speaker A: You [00:09:24] Speaker D: know, and in some ways, look, there was. [00:09:26] Speaker A: There's [00:09:26] Speaker D: something better and refreshing about that, I think, for the autonomy of the child. Independence, things you learn. But now from a parent's perspective, I look back and say, wow, they really didn't know where I was. She kept tabs. She had her network. And. No, I miss them. I got sort of my public service from them. My mom was an educator. My dad in social services, he ran homeless shelters for the city. So I learned a lot about. [00:09:57] Speaker A: He took you to these homeless shelters, right? [00:09:59] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes. And it was very interesting because always they were Virginia. The way I feel about New York is how they felt about Virginia. That was home. [00:10:09] Speaker A: They [00:10:09] Speaker D: were just passing through here. Now they passed through for like 50 years. But, you know, all the Christmas. So we're going home for Christmas. I'm like, well, I'm already home. But yes, we're going to Virginia. But even though they never really fully. They always kept sort of Virginia as their sort of home in their mind. [00:10:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:26] Speaker D: They were, you know, they. They spent a lot of time here and were really embedded in the community through, you know, whether it was my mom. I mean, one of my. A real bond. Fond now looking back memories is, you know, we'd walk around and felt like every block some student or former student would stop her and say, hey, you know. You know, you. You taught me 10 years ago and now I'm doing this. You know, I'm eight years old and I'm like tugging. Let's go. [00:10:53] Speaker A: But [00:10:54] Speaker D: now I really kind of treasure those. And my dad, you mentioned, you know, he would take me, you know, or frankly, it was mostly me going to want to get something from him, you know, hey, dad, you know, get $20, you know, stop by work or if we were out and about walking around, he would see, you know, folks he referred to as his clients. And that certainly made an impression on me. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Oh, that's. That's amazing. But you also mentioned that from what I read, you sponsor a Harlem Middle League team in honor of your late father. Is that true? [00:11:26] Speaker D: Yes. He was a. He was a big baseball enthusiast and sort of one of my, you know, I wish he'd gotten. My son played Harlem Little League for some years and he never got to. My dad never got to see that. And he. It's a Harlem Little League, much like the Little Leagues throughout the city. Parent run. It's like the sort of epitome of civic engagement. And I have a lot of fun. The last couple of years, I've had the honor of doing the Little League pledge to the players on opening day. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Oh, that's [00:12:05] Speaker D: great. It's a ton of fun. He would have loved that. So we sponsor a team in his memory. [00:12:11] Speaker A: That's beautiful. I love that. Go ahead. I'm sorry. [00:12:15] Speaker D: No, no, I was just. I was just. It is. It is just very. You know, you see them running around in there, you know, Jackie Robinson park or Shay over in Marcus Garvey. Another, another. Since we're talking all things New York, I think another thing that people outside of the city don't fully appreciate is our parks. [00:12:33] Speaker A: Oh, [00:12:34] Speaker D: our parks. We've got great parks. [00:12:36] Speaker A: I. I agree. Here. Here. I agree. You know, because Central park in general, too. I mean, but there's also so many parks like you mentioned in. In Harlem, Washington Heights, in Wood. I mean, up in upper Manhattan that people don't visit. [00:12:49] Speaker D: And literally, huge up in Washington Heights. [00:12:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, [00:12:52] Speaker D: Huge. [00:12:52] Speaker A: It's amazing. You know, I really like my neighborhood, Washington Heights. What do you think's changed most about Harlem since you were a kid? And what do you hope never changes? [00:13:03] Speaker D: So I do think we talked a little bit about pricing. I think that's probably [00:13:09] Speaker A: the [00:13:09] Speaker D: most significant change with some people being priced out of the neighborhood. And as you said, it's a broader phenomenon. It's not just Harlem, but when you see certain businesses that were there forever, that are no longer there, certain residents, I think that's the. The biggest piece. And I would say, other than the individual tax that comes with that. I do remember we're still fortunate enough to have a bakery on the corner of where I grew up. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Nice. [00:13:44] Speaker D: There was a different one when I was growing up. It's there. I can say make my cake is where it is now. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Make my cake. It's called [00:13:51] Speaker D: a great cake. Oh, [00:13:52] Speaker A: that's awesome. [00:13:53] Speaker D: It was better pie crust when I was younger. [00:13:55] Speaker A: But [00:13:55] Speaker D: I do think that those. Those stores that are sort of invested in. I mean, I remember. I remember growing up, you know, my mom would say, if you got any trouble running, to run into better pie crust, right? Cause they know you in there, right? And, you know, that sort of network of neighbor. Individual neighbors of businesses that were sort of vested in the community. That's what I hope, you know, we're at risk. First. Too much change in that regard. I mean, certainly welcome in resources. And like, when I was growing up, we didn't have a. We didn't have a grocery store to talk about in Harlem of any sort of size. Now that. I say that, I can now think of one or two, but certainly just not to serve the neighborhood in the way that it deserved to be served. And so more resources coming in is certainly good. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Isn't Harlem getting one of the grocery stores that mom Dhommi is. Is setting up? Or am I mistaken on [00:14:52] Speaker D: that? I think. I think. I think East Harlem, Park Avenue, under the. I know that was one of the. One of the places they talked about. And now we do have a better. We're certainly much better served than when I was growing up when, you know, and that's a lot of, you know, a lot of work by people in government and Also community leaders. You know, we need xyz. Right. So I hope we, you know, I hope we keep, you know, certainly the sort of the, the traditional resources upkeep like we mentioned the parks and. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:32] Speaker D: And some of the kind of the stalwart institutions, whether that's the Schomburg Museum of Harlem. They're embedded and they're not. They're not going anywhere. But I do think they are key. And then some of the small businesses sort of certainly define my childhood. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Do you go to Melba's? I think I saw. [00:15:51] Speaker D: I, I am. I'm no stranger to Melbas. We're going to go down my whole eating itinerary. We make my cake and [00:15:57] Speaker A: how about like Red Rooster or Sylvia's? [00:15:59] Speaker D: Red Rooster and Sylvia's. I, I have. [00:16:02] Speaker A: I, I frequently do. [00:16:03] Speaker D: I've been. I. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Charles Pan Fried Chicken to [00:16:06] Speaker D: Charles Pan Fried Chicken. Big shout out [00:16:09] Speaker A: Harlem [00:16:10] Speaker D: to them. They actually they are. They are the official. They. I was joking with the proprietors there. They. They now I teach a Sunday school class at my. My church and then they do the food on Sunday mornings. [00:16:23] Speaker A: Charles Pan fried chicken. [00:16:24] Speaker D: Fried chicken. Great. And [00:16:26] Speaker A: Chef Q, I think is his [00:16:27] Speaker D: name. Yes. Yeah. Awesome guy. Yeah. Chef Quee's great. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker D: And. And I joked with him that puts the class in a good mood when they, when they start with fried chicken. Yeah. Incentivizes early arrivals and puts people in a great disposition to start. Makes teaching a little bit easier. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yep. I agree. I agree. Another thing, I read that you were the Trinity Tiger mascot. Is that true? [00:16:51] Speaker D: I was. Tell us about [00:16:52] Speaker A: that. How'd that happen? You got any pictures? [00:16:54] Speaker D: You know, there are probably some pictures floating around. You know, sort of a real New York story here. I was the vice president of the student senate, and I think we were doing our inaugural homecoming [00:17:07] Speaker A: and [00:17:08] Speaker D: we were trying to get people jazzed up. And the president of the student senate at that time was none other than Dan Gorodnik, [00:17:16] Speaker A: who [00:17:16] Speaker D: himself is in public life and had had a lot of great positions. And so we chuckled at, you know, as. I don't know what 17 and 16 year olds we were. You know, we were working together and then we've had occasion to work together. I was a city council staffer when he was a council member. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:17:32] Speaker D: Uh, and so it's, it's some people from those days. Look at us. Oh, yeah, we knew this was gonna happen. [00:17:40] Speaker A: When did you start getting interested in law and thinking you're gonna go to law school? When did you realize how did this work? When did you Realize you're gonna go into law or. What was your first interest? What piqued your first interest in this subject? [00:17:52] Speaker D: So I don't know if I would have connected it specifically to legal education. But, you know, while we've been kind of talking and talking about some of the really fun moments. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:00] Speaker D: I, you know, I certainly had some challenges on the public safety front growing up, and that's what first got me thinking about legal issues. And so I had kind of six gunpoint incidents between high school and college, [00:18:19] Speaker A: really. [00:18:20] Speaker D: Three were stops by the nypd, really. And then three were more traditional public safety. So that got me really thinking about, you know, safety in the neighborhood, about safety in all respects. [00:18:34] Speaker A: How do you handle. How did you handle the situations when you're at gunpoint for you're set by people in the neighborhood as well? How do you handle that? [00:18:41] Speaker D: There were a couple of. A few incidents, you know, one with actually kind of shots fired at me and my friends, another with actually a handgun in the. In the home, which. Which was there, you know, for our safety, but. But led to, you know, this is when I was young and someone was over and sort of discovered it. And, you know, it fortunately didn't end in a tragedy, but could have. And. And. And then, yeah, I remember being in ninth. Ninth grade, out with. Out with some friends and going into a party and someone sort of in the name of security at the door, you know, kind of, you know, pointing@semiautoman AK@US. Yeah. Terrifying. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Geez. [00:19:31] Speaker D: I could imagine, or I [00:19:32] Speaker A: can't imagine, I should [00:19:33] Speaker D: say, as a ninth grader. And so when I, you know, when I talk about the sort of, you know, looking back at the crime stats, [00:19:44] Speaker A: you [00:19:44] Speaker D: know, there is a part of me that. I mean, I love that chapter. It was great growing up. I love Harlem. So many great things. But then. But there were. There were really significant issues. And so I think those early incidents really got me thinking about, you know, public safety. I don't know if I would have connected at that time to going to law school necessarily, but this was saying, hey, like, you know, what, like, how do we. How do we foster neighborhood safety? You know, like, why are all these guns, you know, here? And then I think as I got older, then started thinking about that, connecting that to sort of. Okay, a way to really address this would be. Would be law school. [00:20:21] Speaker A: And you talked about the police, too. You had some incidents with the police. [00:20:24] Speaker D: Yeah, I had some very unfortunate, you know, certainly I now know, having gone to law school. But you didn't really need to go to law school to know their unconstitutional stops. And that was probably one of my first engagements, was filing a civilian complaint after the first stop, along with my then council member, who was Steve Virginia Fields, and my minister at the time, the late Reverend Calvin O. Butts third. And so that was an introduction to a number of things for me. Sort of local political process activism. And started thinking about how we can sort of. [00:21:11] Speaker A: Seeds are being planted. [00:21:12] Speaker D: Yes. Seeds are being planted. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Well, real quick, when did you meet your wife? [00:21:17] Speaker D: So I met my wife. This is one of those things I gotta be careful because I wish, you know, we have different origin stories and when we tell them, you know, they're competing stories. So I'm gonna try to give the. I'm gonna meld the stories together into the objective middle ground. She'll tell me later how I do. So we were. I was a third year in law school [00:21:40] Speaker A: and [00:21:40] Speaker D: she was getting a master's in education. And one of my roommates went to college. So we just, we met that way. And I think we. Objective fact, we met. We were still friends. We weren't dating. And then, you know, we independently moved, in my case, back to New York. In her case to New York. And then, and then we. And this is the story that my, that my friends love to tease me about. Unfortunately, there are no pictures. We then sort of reconnected back in New York. She was working for a not for profit called Girls, Inc. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Where [00:22:13] Speaker D: she designed after school programs. And I was at my church working with the Boy Scout troop. And we were there on Saturday morning. She was doing a presentation about Guess. It wasn't after school on a Saturday morning, but, you know, extracurricular time. And I was there with the Boy Scout troupe. And, you know, we just kind of bumped into each other and said, oh, let's go get something to eat. And the part that my, my friends really like to emphasize, although again, there are no pictures, [00:22:41] Speaker A: is [00:22:42] Speaker D: that this, this first, you know, we'll call it a date. First date, I was, I was, I was clad in a, in a, in a Boy Scout top. That's [00:22:50] Speaker A: funny. [00:22:51] Speaker D: So [00:22:52] Speaker A: you have the tie thing. You [00:22:54] Speaker D: know, it was, you know, we had a sort of a urban take on it [00:22:57] Speaker A: at my [00:22:57] Speaker D: church. And I wasn't, you know, it wasn't in the full uniform, [00:23:00] Speaker A: an urban take in the church. [00:23:02] Speaker D: But, but, but certainly, you know, walking, walking down, you know, from Adam Clayton Powell to Frederick Douglass in the Boy Scout uniform. You know, I said that takes confidence. It does, yeah. You know, you know, when you're walking around with a bunch of little, Little boys. Like, it makes sense. But then when you're. When you. When you. When you're going on a lunch date. Exactly. You know, so my friends, like, they like, they like that story. [00:23:25] Speaker A: That's pretty funny. That is awesome. And you have a couple kids, correct? [00:23:29] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Talk about as much or little as you want. Your kids. I get that. [00:23:33] Speaker D: Yep. No, well, the, you know, teenage years, [00:23:36] Speaker A: they're teens now. [00:23:37] Speaker D: Teens and beyond. Yeah. Oh, [00:23:39] Speaker A: yeah, yeah. [00:23:40] Speaker D: And you're [00:23:41] Speaker A: a strict parent. You lenient parent. What kind of parent are you? [00:23:43] Speaker D: Well, look, compared to my. My parents, certainly more. More permissive. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:51] Speaker D: But I don't know if they would. I don't know if they would describe me as lean. I guess it's all. Because it's all. All perspective. But it has been a real joy. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Their perspective. [00:24:02] Speaker D: Yes. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think they probably, you know, and then. And then grand. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Here, come on in. [00:24:07] Speaker D: Grandparents get all brand new, right? So when my parents were alive, you know. [00:24:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:11] Speaker D: They can't. They don't know them as the strict disciplinarians that I knew my mom, you know, I'm like, who are these people giving away candy and stuff? You know, everyone stay up to likes you want. What happened? [00:24:23] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:23] Speaker D: My grandparent. Apparently the rules are different. True. But it is. It's been very fun. I mean, I'm my, My. My kids, I'm sure, and my wife tired of my, you know, oh, you know, let me tell you about New York in 1980 stories. But it has been fun to kind of share. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:40] Speaker D: You know, some of that history and. And to let you know. Let them know what, you know, what was, you know, what was here, you know, 30 years ago. Which also isn't just my kids. Sometimes, you know, it's not true, but I used to sort of fancy myself at one point of saying I've been on every block in Manhattan. That's not true. But. But a lot of them. And, you know, so sometimes when I'm talking cases in the office with assistant district attorneys, you know, they'll say, oh, this happened. I said, oh, across from the so and so. And they're like, look at me like, you know, I'm like, well, you know, like, I. Yeah, I spent a lot of time on that block over the years, you know, and by the way, before there, the Wiz was there, you know. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Oh, the Wiz. Wow. You're taking me back. That's fun. So now you're in college, you know, so you and your wife are Married and you have kids. So how do you get. What's your first job in New York City? As a lawyer or what? What was it specifically? [00:25:33] Speaker D: So I. I was. I was. I was. I was back. I was not yet. Not yet married, was dating, but I was. I worked for a phenomenal federal judge, Judge Robert B. Patterson. And I commend these to this to. [00:25:51] Speaker A: I'm so sorry, was that just out of Harvard? [00:25:53] Speaker D: Right out of law school. And I do a fair amount of recruiting, go to a lot of law schools. And I always recommend, look, if you want to litigate, you want to be in the courtroom. The year with a judge is just cold. You know, they're teaching you, they're mentoring you. You're seeing things. You're in court every day. And he was particularly nurturing and kind, and I got to see the best of the practice of law. You know, he'd say, you know. You know, the way that guy just did it, do it that way. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:25] Speaker D: What that lawyer just did, never do that. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:26:29] Speaker D: And a year of that and just. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Prosecutor out the gate. You were you a prosecutor out the gate. How'd this work? [00:26:36] Speaker D: I did not. So I left that year of clerkship, and I worked at a small firm that did criminal defense work, primarily white collar, but more than that and some civil rights work. [00:26:52] Speaker A: Nice. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:26:54] Speaker D: Sure, yeah. So I worked there with a number of former prosecutors at the firm. So again, sort of good mentorship, but sometimes you get opportunities sort of born of just circumstances. And so the firm had represented a number of members of the Onondaga Nation who'd been protesting and then arrested. They represented criminal cases, and then when those were dismissed, they said, oh, we're gonna sue on their behalf. For their First Amendment rights were violated the alleged Fourth Amendment. And I was assigned to that when I joined the firm. And it was in Syracuse. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:33] Speaker D: And so. And then we represented, I mean, I think all total, Maybe we had 50 plaintiffs and our co counsel at 50. So there are a lot of parties on both sides. A lot of work to be done. So I, you know, spent. Spent a lot of time up in Syracuse taking depositions, investigating, and, you know, [00:27:52] Speaker A: interesting. [00:27:52] Speaker D: Learned a lot. Really great, great folks and mentors at that firm. And then after that, then I sort of. It was sort of a spirit of service there. A lot of people had been in government. So after the. After the three years there, I went to the New York State Attorney General's office and sort of the kind of through line in my career Sort of a combination of civil rights and prosecution. So I was in the Public Integrity Unit that did public corruption cases and kind of abusive authority cases. And basically since then I've been in government or I taught for a few years. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Jay and I actually have a question. I wanted to ask you something I think a lot of New Yorkers would find interesting. And Jay and I. Jay was asking me this too. You worked at different levels of our justice system, and I think a lot of people, myself included, don't always understand how it works. Can you explain the difference between state and federal courts and where the Manhattan district attorney fits into all of that? [00:28:55] Speaker D: Sure. You know, and I have been really privileged to work at all of those levels. I started as a, you know, in state service, then I became a federal prosecutor, and now [00:29:05] Speaker A: at [00:29:05] Speaker D: the local level. And all the. All the jobs are impactful and important and, you know, public service, the local prosecutors, not just the Manhattan district attorney's office, but each borough has a district attorney's office. We're kind of really sort of on the ground. Right. So we are doing tens of thousands of cases a year. Everything from the iPhone theft on the 2 train to a homicide or a sexual assault, and then, particularly here in Manhattan, a complex cyber hack or we have a business crimes practice. And so our docket kind of reflects all of Manhattan, and a particular focus is on individual victims. The overwhelming majority of our cases involve individual victims. When I was a federal prosecutor, again, very edifying work, and I think impactful. But just by sort of way of example, my last trial was a bank fraud, and the statutory victim was a federally chartered bank. The bank was out because of sort of sham mortgages. And, you know, there were individuals who were harmed there, had their identities taken. But because the way the statute, how we had jurisdiction, you know, what we had to prove was that the bank was defrauded. You know, our work in the district attorney's office is mostly dealing with individual victims. And we've spent, we've doubled. We have a kind of survivor services practice where we have clinicians and advocates and counselors. And I should say just to anyone who's listening, you know, these are services we offer to victims free of charge and without regard to a case. So if you've been a victim, crime victim, but you don't want to go forward in the case, you still can get these services. We have some people who, it's 15 years after their case and they're getting services. And [00:31:24] Speaker A: so [00:31:24] Speaker D: I would say, you know, are just the sort of the volume, the Sort of the. Where we're sort of on the front lines is one difference, just in terms of the. The scope of the docket and sort of very focused on sort of individual victims. [00:31:38] Speaker A: Wow, it's fascinating. And your priorities as DA are what? Gun violence, mental health and substance use, housing and workers, is that correct? [00:31:49] Speaker D: Those are definitely some of our top priorities. I would say shootings in particular, you know, when. When I came in office, he was coming right out of COVID Crime nationwide was up. And one thing we really wanted to focus on was violent crime. And through partnerships with the nypd, community groups. [00:32:11] Speaker A: I'm [00:32:12] Speaker D: really proud to report that since I started to now, shootings are down about 67%. I saw [00:32:19] Speaker A: that. It's amazing. [00:32:20] Speaker D: It's a lot of teamwork, a lot of working together, a lot of. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Do you work with mom Dami a lot? [00:32:25] Speaker D: We work on shootings primarily with the nypd. That's sort of our primary partner. But we are working with City hall and the new kind of community safety. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. [00:32:41] Speaker D: Yeah. One. I would say the recipe for how shootings have gone down is we have good intelligence. We use a heat map sort of. And focused there. And so we focused every time a shot was fired in areas that were really had chronic gun violence. We staffed it like it was a homicide. And that was primarily with the nypd. But at the same time, we worked with local groups called Cure Violence or Crisis Management, who, not law enforcement, not government, can sometimes can go places where we can't go and something happens and there's going to be retaliation. And they say, look, I've done that. I've taken that route. Don't do that. And they kind of turn the temperature down. So one thing we've been really grateful for is that there are parts of the island with. East Harlem has a number of groups like that. Washington Heights, not as much. And so the mayor's administration just. We asked for it in the last budget cycle and they granted it money for crisis management in Washington Heights, which I think is going to be very, very impactful. Really trying to be on the front end, prevention, stopping things before they happen. So coordinating a lot with community safety. And then obviously, the mayor's put a very strong emphasis on affordability. I've expanded our worker protection work over the last several years and met with the deputy mayor, incoming deputy mayor for economics with the new commissioner for the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. And we're working together. We now have a memorandum of understanding so we can share information better. Someone can report something and we'll figure it out. Is it a civil case? Is it a criminal case? So on the housing and the worker work, really developing strong partnerships. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Well, you also just launched its first corporate crime and antitrust task force. Correct. I think this is something everyday New Yorkers should also know about. [00:34:47] Speaker D: We're excited about this. You know, the office has a kind of very long history of being engaged in white collar enforcement going back to really the turn of the century with, you know, when Governor Dewey was district attorney focusing on Tammany hall and public corruption and other big cases under Mr. Wargatha and Da Vance, you know. And so we're doing that work, but we wanted to have a new unit that would really focus on. On I got going upstream. Right. You know, looking at systems. We can and will always kind of do the most visible crime that you see. But then like who put the structures in place for that. So a recent example is we do a number of shoplifting cases. We're focused on shoplifting and those cases generally are the people who are taking goods out of the [00:35:47] Speaker A: store. [00:35:49] Speaker D: We recently just did a trial of two people who were convicted for fencing. Like you take the goods, where do you take them to? These were people who we alleged had millions of dollars of shoplifted goods that were convicted of a part of that. And the thought being they are enabling the front end shoplifting and in many ways perhaps didn't contemplate that they could be held criminally liable. And so that more looking at people who are facilitating and putting the systems in place that are enabling some of the crime that we see most visibly and the thought that will really have an impact on what we see and hold people accountable for really profiting in significant ways. In some instances. [00:36:43] Speaker A: That's amazing. And how many years have you been a lawyer in New York City now? [00:36:51] Speaker D: So I graduated from law school in 99. So is that when we at that number is getting even [00:36:55] Speaker A: higher? [00:36:56] Speaker D: I know. How can that be when I'm 25? [00:36:58] Speaker A: I don't even think Jay was born yet. I'm just kidding. He's a producer. He knows I'm joking, but go ahead. [00:37:05] Speaker D: So yes, I've that and I've been practicing. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:08] Speaker D: You know, work for the judge for the year and since then I've been practicing so some. Some time now. And I started in government in 2000. [00:37:15] Speaker A: And you mean you've made quite a name for yourself here in New York City as well. So does the public recognize you here and there? [00:37:23] Speaker D: Every once in [00:37:24] Speaker A: a while. Every once [00:37:24] Speaker D: in a while. [00:37:25] Speaker A: And do they give their opinions to you sometimes. [00:37:28] Speaker D: This is New York City. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:30] Speaker D: You get three opinions from one person. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point. [00:37:34] Speaker D: Which I love. Look, I, I, I am out and about a lot, and I love, you know, and sometimes in organized fashions like community meetings, but you know, oftentimes just, you know, watching the Nick game, you know, you, you'll get. And sometimes it's very encouraging. You know, sometimes people feel they know they kind of. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:57] Speaker D: I give a talk. So, you know, shooting. I know I, I live, you know, where the shootings are. [00:38:02] Speaker A: Right, exactly. [00:38:03] Speaker D: You know, and other times it will, it will be, you know, very constructive feedback. And I always tell folks that, like, part of my job is to, you know, great ideas come from everywhere and they come wrapped in all sorts of ways. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Nicely said. [00:38:19] Speaker D: And, you know, sometimes they come in the form of criticism. Correct. And you need to listen to that and evaluate it. You know, now there's also criticism sometimes that is not cogent, and it's just sort of someone yelling into the wind. And, you know, my job when I'm out interacting people is to, to listen for the nugget that may be in the middle of some of the hysteria. And we've, and we have listened and some of our really strongest partnerships have actually come from people who started out and say, like, we got a problem. Like, you know, can you help us fix it? And particularly on you mentioned sort of mental health. You know, we, we were working with, you know, business owners. We started 125th street, then we went down to Times Square, and then we went down even further to kind of the Washington Square park area, where business owners were saying, like, look, we people, there's disorder. You know, maybe a crime. It may not be a crime, but you, you know, how can you help us? And we really driven the first instance by the head of the business improvement district in Harlem on 25th street, got together in a storefront and just had a whole of government approach, you know, Department of Buildings. Hey, this is a legal scaffolding. We take this down, [00:39:31] Speaker A: you [00:39:31] Speaker D: know, maybe people underneath it will, you know, kind of, you know, literally they're taking cover to do things they shouldn't. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Trust me. I. Right. They just took this scaffolding away from my apartment building last week. And I'm so glad it's gone because people used it as a shelter. [00:39:45] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And so we did would do that at the same time that we'd have the Department of Homeless Services out, say, Kathleen's gone. Here, here are these, you know, services [00:39:55] Speaker A: yeah, [00:39:55] Speaker D: you know, it's the same time as the Department of, of Health and then also my office in nypd. So we've done that in some, again, sort of hot spots, spots that are in real need. And then partnered with, let's at hold of government, but also partnering then with community groups. We fund a group called the Bridge that has people who themselves formerly justice involved or formerly unhoused that are going on and connecting with people. [00:40:24] Speaker A: Nice. [00:40:24] Speaker D: That the average New Yorker would understandably cross the street away from. They're going and connecting with them, developing relationships to try to stabilize them before crime happened. And so that was born out of conversations with people saying, hey, we got a problem. And some of the people was very, very constructive with how they said it. Some of them were like a little less though, but the nugget and the idea. And then we. So let's sit down and walk, like, what can we [00:40:52] Speaker A: do? [00:40:53] Speaker D: And so, yes, lots of opinions [00:40:56] Speaker A: and [00:40:56] Speaker D: I think listening to them. And I like to never tell people, no, that's not what we do. Because a lot of times I'll get feedback about something that has nothing to do with criminal law enforcement. But I view myself in a way, sort of [00:41:10] Speaker A: on [00:41:11] Speaker D: a board of directors for the city. And so I think that's why being in touch with City hall, being in touch with agencies trying to route people, it's sort of the same thought with the, the memory of understanding with the Department of Consumer Worker Protection. We can't expect someone to know if they, you know, if they weren't paid wages. It's not their job to figure out whether that was a criminal violation or civil. Just tell us and we'll figure it out and one of us will hop on it. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Okay, wonderful. You've also taken on some very high profile cases here in New York City. And one of the, one of them is Donald Trump, which is very interesting. And it was one of the most talked about trials in American history. What was that experience like? Knowing the entire country is watching. How did that make you feel? How was the pressure? [00:41:59] Speaker D: So. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Or was there any [00:42:01] Speaker D: so. Well, so what I would say about that is actually I was thinking about our other cases. There was so much attention on that case that my concern was that particularly with the attention around the office, harder to get in and out of the courthouse. [00:42:17] Speaker A: True. Yeah. I went down there one time. [00:42:20] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. It presented some real logistical challenges. And my thoughts were really with all of the other cases, so putting a system in place so that someone who's coming to go to a grand jury or a different trial about intimate partner violence. Making sure that they realize that, that that was the sort of, you know, that assistant district attorney's primary concern was them and that, you know, there will be. This is Manhattan. The office has, you know, from time to time has cases to get attention. And I think one of the things that I always like to underscore for the public is all of the other work that is going on. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:06] Speaker D: And particularly on these issues that we spend a lot of time really, we've talked about shootings, but domestic violence is one that we don't talk about publicly enough. And so my focus really was making sure that those victims families, those survivors knew that we were still there. Our survivor services bureau was working hard for them. Decision attorneys on their case were focused on their case. And I think this is New York City, Manhattan. There's always gonna be something high profile going on. But we're here every day for all New Yorkers and everything from as we've talked about, a theft to salt. And I want people to know that, and I mentioned our survivor service earlier, that we are here, we're here for them. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Well, I'm also going to mention just a few more that you have taken on who also Luigi Mangione and Brian Thompson, Harvey Weinstein, Steve Bannon, excuse me, Cuba Gooding Jr. That's just amazing how many cases you've taken that are so high profile and well known. [00:44:22] Speaker D: This is Manhattan, pre Covid. I think we're probably getting close back to it. You know, 4 million people a day between consumers and tourists and commuters and residents. And so a lot happens here and you know, occasionally it will happen with someone that either is a victim or someone charged with a crime who's well known. And our job is, you know, to follow the facts wherever they go, apply the facts to the law. And that's sort of the charge and the mandate to, to the office. But I do think some of that, those are just features of being in Manhattan where all sorts of folks come and go and sometimes they're high profile folks. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Well said. Thank you. So if people need to report something, how do they do it? What's the process? [00:45:13] Speaker D: Sure. Look, so if it's an emergency, they should certainly call 91 1. If it's something like we talked about in a worker who's not getting paid, a tenant who has severe housing issues, they should certainly reach out to us. Certainly victims of crime who've had property taken or had physical harm, we're here to serve. They can always go to the local Precinct in an emergency, call 911. Our website, Manhattan in particular, for the housing and the worker issues and other ones, I would say an emergency, call 911. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Thank you. We'll also put that in the description of the podcast as well. But I want to ask you another last question is how big of a Knicks fan are you? [00:46:09] Speaker D: Knicks in five. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Let's talk about it. [00:46:11] Speaker D: Mix in five. I, you know, so I. Where'd [00:46:14] Speaker A: you watch the games? Tell me everything. Because I was everywhere. I love the city. Go ahead. [00:46:20] Speaker D: I watched the games at a local sports bar and [00:46:27] Speaker A: I did, too. [00:46:28] Speaker D: It was the best chapter of fandom in my life. And I thought really, it just set the whole summer for all [00:46:36] Speaker A: of [00:46:37] Speaker D: New York off on a great. Completely [00:46:38] Speaker A: agreement. [00:46:39] Speaker D: Um, but like I said, I'm. I'm. I'm 53. And so I was born [00:46:42] Speaker A: the year. [00:46:43] Speaker D: But months after. [00:46:44] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:46:45] Speaker D: months after the [00:46:46] Speaker A: last time. May1. [00:46:47] Speaker D: I missed the last one. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:49] Speaker D: I've literally been waiting for this my entire life. [00:46:52] Speaker A: And your whole life you've been a big Knicks fan? [00:46:54] Speaker D: Oh, I mean, I think I had some wayward young years where I may have. I may have, you know, in my, in my, in my early youth, you know, you know, think I was a Dr. J fan when I was in single digits. You know, I like the dunking. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:47:09] Speaker D: exactly. But I've been a Knicks fan. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Tragic. [00:47:11] Speaker D: As long as I can remember in terms of, you know, team sports. You know, look, when I was, you know, when I was in high school, I played point guard. I wanted to be Mark Jackson. [00:47:22] Speaker A: Yep. [00:47:25] Speaker D: It really was. I mean, I've got friendships born out of, you know, watching Nick's games forever with the same crew, you know, waiting year after year. I mean, I was, I think probably my peak fandom, you know, probably for a lot of people my age, when we really were. Almost got there was, you know, the Ewing starch teams, Ewing, Allen, Houston, you know, getting there, you know, to the finals, getting this close. And so I just thought it was. I thought it was great for fans who've been waiting for so long and just a great, A great team. Right. They represented the city so well. And look, I thought the mayor's speech at city hall for the [00:48:15] Speaker A: incredible. [00:48:18] Speaker D: It captured it so well. Were [00:48:21] Speaker A: you at the speech? [00:48:22] Speaker D: I was there. I was there and [00:48:26] Speaker A: I was at the Woolworth Building on the seventh floor overlooking it all. So. Yeah, it was amazing. But go ahead. [00:48:30] Speaker D: It was just. It was a great. I mean, it's great. I just thought. I'm speechless. It was, it was Obviously, we're getting off to a little bit of a slow start this year. [00:48:38] Speaker A: That's okay, [00:48:38] Speaker D: but. Exactly. It's okay. So, I mean, I, I, you know, I'm just [00:48:41] Speaker A: like, 70 games. I don't know how [00:48:42] Speaker D: many might have said something in the middle of last year's championship was like, if they go, oh, 182. Yeah, [00:48:47] Speaker A: yeah, yeah. [00:48:48] Speaker D: You know, I'll take it for a championship. [00:48:50] Speaker A: You know, the first couple games, I was. Some events downtown or whatever. I went to the. Yeah, some events downtown. But the night. What game was that three, where we were way behind and came back. Was that game three or [00:49:03] Speaker D: game. [00:49:04] Speaker A: Yeah, game three. We were way behind and came back. [00:49:07] Speaker D: Game three. We. We. We lost. [00:49:09] Speaker A: We're way behind. Okay. [00:49:11] Speaker D: We're down 29. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Gosh. Yeah. Game four is what I'm talking about. I went to the Harlem Tavern that night. I was by myself. I had a, you know, busy few days, so I'll just go to Harlem Tavern by myself and hang out. And then, you know, halfway through the game, we were losing. So me, like an idiot, left and went home. And then I get home off the subway, and I see they're catching up. And I ran out into the street on Broadway with everybody out in the street, you know, watching what was happening. What were you doing? [00:49:38] Speaker D: So I was not far from Harlem Tavern, and there's a picture of me. I think my wife took it at halftime, where just, like, a lot of people had sort of. You know, it was halftime, so I was taking a bathroom, breaking up, and I was sort of in a state of paralysis, I guess, [00:49:57] Speaker A: where [00:49:57] Speaker D: I was just sort of staring off into the abyss with this, like, bewildered intensity. [00:50:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:05] Speaker D: And, like, that was the best half of basketball ever. And I do think it captures the city. And I do. People. You hear people saying, well, look, never give up. You know, tenacity, you know, play today. All. All the expressions that. Going back [00:50:19] Speaker A: to. Exactly. [00:50:20] Speaker D: Going back to Harlem, Little League, all the things that you tell the kids, you know, like, you got to run it out to first base. Yeah. You know. You know, you, you, you, you, you. You got to play all the innings. You got to. You know, all that stuff is. Is encapsulated in that half. Right, [00:50:35] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:50:35] Speaker D: You just gotta chip away. You gotta keep every person do their job right. Everyone stay in their. You know, it's just all the kind of sports phrases that we've said forever. You know, you could use that half of basketball to teach. And what I really like about it. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:50] Speaker D: You know, maybe not so much in the moment. But what I really liked about it, looking back at it, was that a lot of times in those kind of comebacks, the team that comes back takes over completely. Right. So, like, when they get the lead, there's no looking back, you know, so they keep on going here. It's like they got there and then, like, then it became a game. [00:51:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:12] Speaker D: It became those last sort of minute. It wasn't [00:51:14] Speaker A: like [00:51:14] Speaker D: we got it and then, like, we just. You know, sometimes you get to leave. The other team folds and the game's over. You know, can run into the locker room. But this was like that. It was a literal play to the end. People don't talk [00:51:24] Speaker A: about Cat [00:51:25] Speaker D: getting his hand on that inbound. You know, I still don't think they started the clock when they should have. But we're not going to. We're not going to complain about that now. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Yep. What that game did for the city to. What it did for New York City, it united us, all of us together in such a way I have never seen and felt before in my life. And I still feel it today in the city. But it. That was incredible. [00:51:47] Speaker D: Nixon 5. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Nixon 5. Nixon 4. Next year, [00:51:50] Speaker D: you know, I'll take Nixon 7 this year. Yeah. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:51:53] Speaker D: me too. [00:51:53] Speaker A: I [00:51:54] Speaker D: don't [00:51:54] Speaker A: care. Just Nixon. [00:51:54] Speaker D: Whatever. Yeah, [00:51:55] Speaker A: yeah. It's so funny. [00:51:57] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I shouldn't have left the Harlem Tavern. That was the biggest mistake of my life, looking back, you know. And then I ran up through the Broadway, you know, just a block up at the top of the hill a little, and just hung out with everybody on the street, and we were just going nuts together. It was insane. It [00:52:14] Speaker D: was [00:52:14] Speaker A: great for. I [00:52:15] Speaker D: mean, we had your dad. And then right into the sort of the World Cup. It was a very collegial, festive out in the streets in the sort of best sense of the sort of, you know, there was a connectivity, you know, which. Which I don't know if I've seen anything like it in a long time, but certainly not. [00:52:33] Speaker A: I never have post [00:52:34] Speaker D: Covid, you know, [00:52:35] Speaker A: just [00:52:35] Speaker D: having people out and what I thought was interesting. And I know sometimes, you know, fans will, you know, you don't want the bandwagon. Right. You know, but, like, I actually welcomed it. I thought it was great. The people who owned it. People said. I talked to a neighbor who. She said, you know, I think it's the first basketball game I ever watched. [00:52:54] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot of people said [00:52:55] Speaker D: that. You [00:52:56] Speaker A: know, [00:52:56] Speaker D: I was like, that's great. That's great. Like, come one, come all. You Know, everyone should be a nick. [00:53:02] Speaker A: I sat on the stoop, you know, just for a couple hours that night, too. After the game, people walking into my apartment building, everybody walking by off the street because the subway station is not too far away. Every man, woman and child was so happy that night. You know, it was like, you know, 10, 11pm, 12pm or 12am whatever. Everybody that was walking by, we would talk and talk. Everybody was so happy. It was nothing like ever experience. [00:53:25] Speaker D: It was great. It was [00:53:26] Speaker A: great. [00:53:26] Speaker D: It was great. And look, I hope we do it again this year. There is something about sort of being in the desert that long for 50 years of like that first time back. And you know something I like, I know we gotta wind down, but like, I also like the way the players from the teams of the late 90s, LJ and [00:53:47] Speaker A: Garth, I saw that Ewing, and [00:53:48] Speaker D: even going back further than that, Bernard King, you know, the connectivity from them across the generations, you know, the ring ceremony with Walt Frazier giving out the [00:53:57] Speaker A: link, [00:53:58] Speaker D: it's. It just tied it all together. [00:54:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was beautiful. It was really cool. The city, what it did is like nothing I've seen. Great talking about that, everything. So before we let you go, my friend, what does it mean to you, Alvin Bragg, to be a New Yorker? [00:54:17] Speaker D: Hard to capture it in words like this. This, this is the best city in the world. And I think it attracts phenomenal people. And we just finished talking about the sort of Knicks. So in some ways, I know people who aren't from here can't see it this way, but it's like one big neighborhood and we've got the best of everything. You could do everything here, whether it's the best food, best arts, best music. That's basketball and putting all that in one place. And I love our density, right? We are all together, you know, we're all together. And I think that density yields vibrancy and creativity and energy that there's just no other place like in the world. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Wonderfully said. I love it. Thank you, my friend. [00:55:11] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:55:11] Speaker A: We'll see you next time. [00:55:13] Speaker D: All right, Sounds good. This is good. [00:55:15] Speaker A: Thank you again, everybody for joining us today on this week's episode of the New Yorkers Podcast. Once again, I'm your host, Kelly Kopp, also known as New York City Cop, all across my social media. [00:55:25] Speaker E: Please like and subscribe to the New Yorkers podcast and you can follow the New Yorkers on social media. Hey, [00:55:32] Speaker A: you can leave a rating or a comment to let us know how you are enjoying the show. We read through all your comments and DMs. So please, we would love to hear from you. Thank you. Kevin R. Williams, Sasha kirkmanhood and Nightopia were your kind words on the last episode. If you want to be featured at the end of an episode, leave a rating on Apple Podcast or a comment on Spotify or YouTube. [00:55:54] Speaker E: And thank you Electric Work, Christy La Schober and Kara Joy Brandt for your comments on Instagram. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Have a lovely day everyone and we will see you next time. [00:56:05] Speaker E: Goodbye. [00:56:09] Speaker F: This is the last stop on this train. Everyone please leave the train. Thank you for riding with MTA New York City Transit.