[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone and welcome to the New Yorkers podcast by New York City Cop. I'm your host, Kelly Kopp, published photographer, New York City tour business owner, content creator, podcaster, and above all else, New Yorker, everyone.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Ladies and gentlemen, the next Brooklyn found train in Mount Biden. Stand clear of the closing doors, please.
This is times square.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: With me today, everybody. I have Alan Van Capel. He is the executive director of Friends of the High Line, the former deputy comptroller for the city of New York, and the chief architect of New York's historic marriage equality bill, which is amazing too.
But above all else, he is a New Yorker. Hey, Ellen, welcome to the show. How you doing today?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: I'm doing great and it's so good to be here.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: It's so awesome to have you here.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Great energy too.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: I love it. You know, I have a feeling we're going to be friends too.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I hope so.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Or we are friends.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: So, you know, just pretend like we're catching up.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Remember that time.
We're really excited to hear everything you have to say today.
So you're a New Yorker.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: And were you born in New York City?
[00:01:39] Speaker B: No, I was born on Long Island. I was born on Long Island. So I grew up on Long island in Comac, home to two Sopranos at the Mets.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Two Jean Valjean's on Broadway, Rosie o', Donnell, Danny o', Donnell, her brother who became the first openly gay out out guy elected to the state assembly, and Bob Costa. So I say it's a good place to be from.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Wow. So where is this on Long Island?
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Like an hour and 10 minutes directly east in the center of Sussex County.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Midway.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, midway through. It is as, as 1950s, like, you know, developments as you can get.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: So you grew up there. You had a nice childhood, I assume?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah, lovely.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Mom and dad, nice parents.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Like, fun, like, nice to grow up, but, you know, but we had no money, right. And so I had to figure out how to go to school. And so I had school meaning college.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: And so I paid for my own. So I paid for my own college. And my parents, I luckily had a grandmother who lived in Queens who said, hey, you could live with me. So I went, put myself through City University of New York and at Queens College and ended up working mostly full time while I was in college in the labor movement. And so that's how I paid for school.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah, yeah. Wow.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: It's also, by the way, how I know where New York is. So if somebody says to me like, oh, like we're going here. I can tell because my first union job was working for a union that represented hospital doctors, interns, residents and fellows. So I could be like, oh, you're from the Bronx. Da, da, da. Oh, by Lincoln Hospital at 242nd. Or, oh, you're at Bellevue in the 20s. Oh, I know where that is. Or like, what's the closest hospital?
And then that's how I know where
[00:03:26] Speaker A: we are in Manhattan. East side, west side, 168 and Broadway.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: 168 and Broadway.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Oh, not.
Not the New York Presbyterian.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: We didn't represent them. Oh, so see, you're going to trip me up.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah, but.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: But we didn't represent them. We represented mostly public hospital.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Yeah, but just at all, you know, I mean, I don't know any. You said that to me. I'd be like, I have no clue. I have no clue. So, so after college, what did you do? What did you study in college, first of all?
[00:03:58] Speaker B: So I thought I was going to be an opera singer or a cancer or something. So I started off at the.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: You would be an opera singer?
[00:04:03] Speaker B: I thought so.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: But then I realized you sing really well.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: I assume I could sing like great in the.
And I used to make a habit of dating the piano players at piano bars so I can get synced up.
And then I. But I really liked it. But I really liked advocacy more. And so when I was working in the labor movement, I would sing a lot in the car as I was traveling from hospital to hospital representing docs. But I ended up.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: So yeah, tell us about the labor movement. Explain what that is, though. I mean.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So doctors in New York had a labor union. They still do.
Interns, residents and fellows. And so I represented those doctors in New York City public hospitals and a few private hospitals. And I ended up bargaining contracts before I graduated college. And then I loved politics, so I started to run the political shop for some unions. So I ran the political shop for the nursing home workers union and the last union I worked for, which was 32 BJ, the doorman and janitors union, who still have my heart. And.
And I really love. And I loved doing it. I absolutely loved it because it was like the intersection of like social justice, but real politics that moves the needle. And I just kind of like, I really loved it.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: So give us an example of what you did, so to speak.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah, so. And at 32 BJ, they had no political action committee. So we started a members political action committee, which became the fastest growing political action committee in the country and labor unions. Then we decided it was 2001. So I'm old. I'm 51. And they were. What's it called?
[00:05:33] Speaker A: And they were young to me.
You're young to me, please.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Every city council seat. I think 31 city council seats were open. So we basically created a political army of union members who went out and walked door to door in council districts. And out of 31 open seats that year, we endorsed in all 31, and we won 28 of the races that we endorse. So I got to know the city through working in politics for a labor union and got to know neighborhoods and elected officials, all of whom were like babies when I knew them. We were all kids growing up, and now we've all sort of grown up together in New York politically.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: But you're doing this like it. I'm assuming, 20 years old.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah, in my 20s.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: That's so impressive at that age to have that.
That drive and that passion for politics, you know, to be political, so to speak, you know, and what you're doing, that's really impressive, you know.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Thank you. But to me, it just. It just really came naturally.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: That's what. Yeah.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. It just, like, just really. It just. It doesn't matter that, like, I've never been the smartest guy in the room. I've never, like.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: But you may be.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: I'm a hard worker.
I'm a hard worker, and.
And I think people are more powerful than they think they are. And so part of what I was doing was really, like, trying to get union members to understand you actually have power. And if you do it collectively, you even have more power. And so let's go figure it out.
And I really, really enjoyed it. But after doing it for a bunch of years and fighting for other people's dignity and rights, I realized I went home every night, and there were 13, 24 different rights and responsibilities I didn't have because I was born gay and my twin sister had.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: And you have a twin?
[00:07:17] Speaker B: I do.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: So do I.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: You're kidding.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: No. Well, I brought twin brother.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And you came from Florida. My twin sister just moved to Florida, so they're going like, wow.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Where she live?
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Fort Myers.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah, we're south. Well, I was Orlando, but my family's in southwest Florida. Yeah, My twin is in the Keys with his wife.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So.
Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah, that's so. Yeah.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: But I'm competitive, and so she. And so. And there are 1100 federal rights that she had, and all those rights came with the marriage license. And I had no. Like, I. Really?
Straight.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah, she's straight.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: And. And so then I thought to myself, after fighting for everybody else, I guess I should probably fight for myself. And I also had to come out at the process because I wasn't out in the labor room.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: I was going to ask you this. I want to say, what about your family? Did you. Did your family know why you were growing up? I mean, they had signs or.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: No. No.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Really?
[00:08:05] Speaker B: No.
No. There was no.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: Fascinating.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: No. In fact, my mother made me play soccer because she thought it was going to butch me up. And she made my father coach the soccer. And they had this conversation loud with each other. It was like, you have to make him straight. You have to butch him up. My father's like, but his coaching. Every Saturday and Sunday, my mother's like, we have to do this. Meanwhile, I'm like, in my bedroom where she kept her dresses. And I'm putting on the dresses, and I'm making crowns out of cardboard and tin foil, and I'm putting it on, and every night I'm crowning myself Miss America. And it was like, you know, it
[00:08:39] Speaker A: was like, you have, like, the flowers. The fake flowers are waving 100%.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: It was a pillow. And I would do the wave and do the whole thing. It was great. And then. But I really did realize. But, like, I was. I wasn't out in high school. I wasn't out at work.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Wait. No. Nobody had a clue? Nothing. There was no signs. No.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: No. You know, you really get good at lying.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: You get good at masking. And I was really good at it. And I just was sort of like, I'm sure somebody must have thought somehow. But I. But then.
But then I got a phone call one day from a recruiter who said somebody had seen a speech I gave. And I just come out and I was talking at Columbia for Danny o', Donnell, who was the first openly gay assembly member from my hometown in Comac, who got elected to Albany. And he asked if I could go speak at a swearing in. So I did.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: When. Here is this.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: This is 2002.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Not too long ago in the whole scheme.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: 2002.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: And I basically was like, sure.
And then I did it. And then the recruiter for the Empire State Pride Agenda, which was the state's gay rights organization, was there, and they said, hey, could you. You know, we heard you. Like, we'd love for you to interview for this job to be the executive director. But I was like, 26, 27. And I said, look, you know, I'm not rich. Like, I thought the Pride agenda was, like, rich, white gay men who summered on Long Island. I said, I'm not rich. I'm not white, and I don't use summer as a verb. I don't think I'm going to be the person to, like, go and run this organization. But I went into a meeting, and I literally said, and this is, like, a lesson for, like, everybody when, like, you're, like, interviewing for a job, they. What people ask for is so different from what they really want. And I basically took out a butcher block piece of paper that I saw, like, rolled up somewhere, and I put it on the wall, and I asked the board of directors who was there. I said, hey, if you can forget everything you know about the queer rights movement, if you forget everything we've done and what we've said and who's doing the talking, what issues we're talking about, if you can start over from scratch, what would it look like?
Who would be the messengers? Who. What. Like, what issues would we be working on? Who would be our allies?
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Right?
[00:10:40] Speaker B: And then I started writing everything down on this butcher block paper.
And they.
And. And I looked and they. I said, open your eyes. They. And they looked at it, and I was like, that organization is really cool. I'd want to work for them.
But this is what you say you're looking for, and these two things are not talking to each other. And so they took, like, a week or so, and then they came back and were like, okay, we want you to run the Pride agenda. And then I was like, oh, shit. I'm 27, and I have no idea how to do this. I've never run anything before. And it was sort of baptism by fire, pretty amazing.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: And they knew you could do it, too, just by getting. Just by talking to you, like I am right now, because I know that I can see you doing it right, too.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: I really enjoyed it.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: It's fascinating.
Can you tell us about the Stonewall riots and how important that event was for the LGBTQ rights that we have today?
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, when I think about Stonewall, you know, it was illegal for there to be gay bars, right, In New York, and.
And they would get raided frequently by the cops.
And one night, the night that happened to be the night that Judy Garland died, there was a lot of people who were like, absolutely, you know, you know, rot and crying and upset, and they came together to be with each other, and the cops wanted to raid the Stonewall Bar. And it was the first time people were like, no.
And they fought back. And I think it was the narrative that changed. People thought of queer people back then as being weak and passive. And we can bully them and push them around. It was the first time they ever saw people in our community fight back.
And really in a very physical way. And it was a riot. And.
And I think that that both shocked the city, but also sort of awakened the community to say, wait a second, we don't have to accept this narrative that we've had before.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: We actually can have power. We can organize and we can, you know, do this.
It was incredibly risky.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: During that period of time for anybody to be out professionally living at that point, you could be fired from your job, kicked out of your home, and deny credit simply because of who you were. That was the law in New York state up until 2001.
So just think about that for a second. Up until 2001, you could be fired from your job, kicked out of your home, denied credit just because of who
[00:13:13] Speaker A: you were, and mind boggling.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: In 34 states in this country, that is still the truth.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Seriously.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: I can't believe that. I had no idea.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: So imagine trying to start a small business.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: And you can't do it because you can't get a loan, you know, or being told, well, we don't really rent here, you know, to. To your kind. So the. That's in 34 states. So I always remind people that even though we've made an enormous amount of progress, you know, this is not a linear thing there. You go forward, you go back a bunch of. You go forward a little bit this time, but then you go farther there.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally wasn't. It was. And I don't want to say her name incorrectly, and I'm sorry if I do. Is that Marcia.
She played a big part. Like Marsha P. Johnson.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Is that her name?
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Good. I'm glad I said it correctly.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Yes. And she was an incredible activist. And in fact, if you go on the High Line today, which we're going
[00:14:08] Speaker A: to lead, this is perfect.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: At 16th street up on the High Line, you can buy our 2026 Pride shirt, which is a tribute to Marsha and the beautiful floral crowns that she wore. So it's this beautiful rainbow floral pattern that has all the flowers from the High Line represented on it, but in a headpiece that Marcia would have worn.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: And she kind of spearheaded the civil rights movement.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: She was one of. She was one of the leaders. And I think partly what you Know, I think some of my straight friends don't understand is that when I was working in the gay rights movement, you know, professionally, you know, in the early 2000s, I had no mentors because a generation of them had died. And so even today, you know, just two years ago, we lost my friend David Mixner, who I think was sort of like one of the godfathers of the. Of the modern gay rights movement. But David buried 200 some odd of his friends and delivered 100 and some odd eulogies for them because of. Because of the AIDS crisis. And so for me, being able to sit with David every other week and to talk to him on the phone almost every day, it was like having a gay parent who could help talk to you about what had happened, because David started the first gay political action committee in the country. He started. He was the first openly gay man to manage a mayoral campaign for Los Angeles Mayor Bradley. In the 70s, he led the moratorium march in Vietnam. So he was a real, like, pioneer.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: All right. You know, in 93, I went to the march in Washington.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Oh, you're kidding.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Wow. We. We took a bus up there, a couple buses.
I forget the name of the churches that provided the buses.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: But when we got there, they said, we're not sure if we want to do this because the KKK is threatening to shoot the buses from the North Florida border to the South Florida, South Georgia, North Florida border. And we're like, no, we're going, wow.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: So what was it like when you were driving in that stretch?
[00:16:08] Speaker A: It was. It was nighttime, and it was. It was.
I wrote a paper about it in college, too. It was.
It was stressful. It was. You could hear a pin drop because we. I think it was like an hour. Obviously, the. The lights that needed to be on were on on the bus, but everything else, we kind of turned them all off, and we were all just really silent. And then as we got to, you know, in the South Georgia border a little bit higher up, then they said, okay, we're in the clear. We're good, you know, and. But it was. We're waiting for something to happen. But I was, you know, I was a proud moment for myself to. To do that to. To go up to DC in 93, and for the. That's the first time I saw the AIDS quilt. Yeah. Covering the. The.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: The mall.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah, the mall. And.
And the first time I saw. So, you know, a lot of people that were sadly dying, you know. Yeah. And I saw a lot of terrible things that people were. How people were treated that were sick, which really made me very sad. But, you know, I mean, but if
[00:17:06] Speaker B: you think about it, you know, our community has so much to teach about resilience because that. Because when nobody would take care of us, we had to build institutions to do that.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah, right?
[00:17:20] Speaker B: When.
When. When hospitals wouldn't treat us, you know, we created Gay Men's Health Crisis. We created a hotline, you know, for people to call when there was problems. We created Gay Community Centers. You know, we had to do all. When we were getting bullied in school, we had to create glsen. We had to do these things. And so I think one of the lessons, too, and that I tell people is, you know, there's this famous. The funny line in Sex in the City where Charlotte's complaining about something and Samantha goes like this, shut the fuck up and just do something about it already.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: And I'm just like. That's the thing. It's like, you know, just, you know, just do it. Stop complaining. Get up and go fix it.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I agree. You know, being from Orlando, too, you know, I was. I just moved the year prior to the Pulse shooting. And so then I went back home. I flew home that night, that day, and. Because.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Had you been there before? Had you danced there?
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Well, I lived a couple blocks away. I've been there many times.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: You know, and I know, you know, Bobby, the manager, he's awesome. I've known him for years.
Barbara and Rosario Palmer.
Palmer, I think is her last name. Palmer.
The owners.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: You know, and the bartenders I knew. And I'd spent a lot of times there, and I was just scrolling on my phone and I was friends with a couple people on Facebook, and I saw. I'm okay. I was just shot in the leg. And I was like, that was one person. I was like, what is this? Then the next person said, I made it out alive. And I just knew that.
Just.
I just knew instantly it was something horrible happened. And I turned on the TV and I saw everything, and then I went home and, you know, was with the community, and it was obviously very rough, you know, but, you know, sadly, things like that happen in this country a lot now.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: I know, I know. My fear is that we've just normalized it.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: It's not normal. We have. You know, but, you know, so let's. Let's talk about, you know, what you do with the High Line. You know, I think that's super important, too, you know, for Pride Month and everything. And, you know, you're here for Pride Month 2 to talk about it. And so tell us all about that.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think the. For me, the. And I think it really does tie in because we were just sort of getting dark for a little bit. Right.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: That's why I was like, I think.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: No, no, I think I appreciate the pivot, but. But I think about this all the time because I think, you know, every day there are communities who are feeling that in some way or another, some reason or another.
And I think the benefit of the High Line is that we provide. I call it surprise, delight and joy.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Surprise, delight. And when you're walking through the gardens of the High Line, I want you to be surprised and delighted by what you see. At every corner, you're going to see something blooming that you haven't. I love that. That you haven't seen before. And you're going to see this plant, and you're going to see birds eating from the berries, and then you're going to see this artwork, because we spend two and a half million dollars a year on commissioned artwork. And the fabulous Tachila Alemani, who's our curator, who's like. I call her like the it girl in curation right now.
She is bringing all these pieces of public art up that millions of people are seeing every year. And so that's the piece. And then our programming, including our Pride programming, is all about giving you joy. And so I think joy is an act of resistance.
And no matter how bad things get in the country and how crazy people are, they don't get to take our joy away from us, because that's how fascists were said. Fascists win when they make you feel hopeless, and that's how they get you to comply. But when you are saying, no, I can walk and chew gum at the same time, I can both fight and be joyful.
Think about the protest movements that we all think about, whether it's civil rights, anti war movements. They had art in them, they had music in them, they had performance in them. They weren't, you know, static. They were dynamic. And so I said, you know, we should just make the High Line a respite. So if you want to go dance salsa, you know, with 1100 people this summer, you'll do that in July on the High Line. If you love piano bars like I do.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: And you want to go sing Broadway show tunes, you know, with hundreds of New Yorkers al fresco underneath our giant New Plinth mission, the Buddha.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: Oh, that's where the. Oh, that's pretty cool.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: It's right there. Then I'm like, then you're going to be able to do that with Broadway stars and Broadway celebrities. And we're going to give that to you every Monday night for Pride. And if you want to, you know, dance and have a big dance party for pride, then you're going to come with our partnership with Zesty World at the end of the month. And all of it, by the way, you can find on our website, highline.org but, like, and everything's free, so we don't charge for any of those things. So it's free. So in an affordability crisis in this city, you can decide you want to show up on the High Line and go to a program, and you can go to that program and we're not charging you for it.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: I like the theme of the city is the. I like the theme of the city right now. It seems like everyone's really all about making the city more affordable for everyone now. And I love that, you know, or free. Or free, you know, And I think that's. We're in this really cool full time right now. So I really, really love it. You know, we had Richard hated on too, you know.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. He's awesome. Oh, he's charming.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Such a.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: He's such. Isn't he charming?
[00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah, he's a great guy.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm like, get him in front of donors. Yeah, get him in front of donors.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: Because he's just great. And I could listen to him and Richard. Yeah. I have a place outside the city as well, up in Northwest Connecticut. Oh, nice. With my husband and our boys and that. And Richard's always like, oh, I want to come over, but he only comes over at night because our gardens are nice, but they're not like what he does. And I feel like I'm going to be judged and I.
I feel like it's going to judge my gardening abilities.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: I don't think he would, you know, publicly. Publicly. No, no, no, no, I'm kidding. He's such a. He's such a nice guy.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: He's lovely. He's great.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: So let's get. Can I get personal with you or can you get personal with us?
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: About your personal life, your family life. Are you married? Are you not? What's your.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: Yes, I am.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: You.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: I'm. I am married. I am married to. To the love of my life.
His name is Matthew, and he and I have been together for 24 years this year. 24 years. Yeah, 24 years. And.
And I Had to say, of all the things I've done, I think that's the greatest accomplishment that I've had because I'm probably not such an easy person to be with. And, and, but, but, but he makes me better.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: That's, that's a beautiful thing to say, though.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: I love that he makes me better. And we have two kids and so that are now Ethan and Patrick, who are now 14 and 12 years old.
And we adopted both of them at birth. So we were in the rooms when they were born. We got to cut their knee cords. Yeah, no, actually, we adopted. Ethan was born in Missouri, Patrick was born in Philadelphia. And we were the first gay couple, I think, in the country to put out a Facebook page called Matt and Alan want another baby. And we basically taught ourselves how to do Facebook ads. And this is pre Instagram. And we found our second birth mother through a Facebook ad.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: I was, I was just going to say, how do you, how does this process work?
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so we did a Facebook. Yeah. So, I mean, we found Ethan because we hired a woman who places ads and Penny Savers across the country looking for pregnant women who don't want to terminate the pregnancy but want to do adoption and doesn't want to do it through an agency for whatever reason, they want to do it privately. And so that's how we found Ethan and Patrick. We found. Through Facebook ads.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Isn't that crazy?
[00:24:55] Speaker A: And do they know their story, too?
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Like how they're knowing their story? I mean, one of the things that we've been really clear is, like, when they're appropriate age, we're going to give them age appropriate, like, information.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Number one, you're telling them their life story.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Yeah. But the cool thing is we send them to a summer camp every year called Camp Highlight, which is one week in August. And it's a camp designed for kids, all of whom have gay parents.
And so it is a phenomenal camp. And they don't go to school with a lot of kids whose stories or families look like theirs. And so we thought it was really important that at least once a year they're with a community of people who they'll get to know hopefully for the rest of their lives, who are adopted, who come up with a family with two dads or two moms and completely understand them totally. You know, where they don't have to explain.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Right, right. And they can talk about it and then share their experiences and connect and that's right. You know, feel included. I think that's amazing.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: And feel like you're part of something, like a part of a thing. Right. Because this is all like, could be isolating or weird and like, it's not. It's very, like very easy.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. I think it's. I think it's amazing. I think it's a wonderful idea. You know, I mean, and I'm sure, you know, the way the world is today, sadly, you know, I'm sure they hear some, some negativity if you know about their story or something sometime. If they don't, it's odd.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: You know, the funny thing is I ask them all the time about that, and I don't think they do.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Oh, really?
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Unless they're lying to me. And my kids really aren't that big on lying. But, like, they're not. Like, I didn't say they're perfect, but they're. But. But I actually don't think that they are what I. Actually, the harder part for me is how I. How I found parenting is so gendered. There's so many gendered parents. Meaning, like, there are rules. Like, you know, it's like still class mom, not a class parent. It's still a mom's group, this group. And dads are sort of left out of the equation. So if you're a gay dad, I'm pretty sure that our kids probably missed out on play dates because the moms were getting together.
But like, the dads don't in that same way. So, like, I, like, I never thought about that. It's one of my. I'm always like asking people, what surprised you about this? Oh, you did this. What surprised you? And if somebody said to me, what surprised you about parenting? And maybe I was just an idiot, that I should have known it, in my opinion.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: I feel like gay men and the women would go hand in hand together.
You know what I mean?
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I think.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Does that make sense what I'm trying to say?
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Totally. And I think we have figured out how to get into those groups, but I don't think it was a natural fit in the beginning.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: I think it was sort of like,
[00:27:27] Speaker A: oh, and this is New York City.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: So to me, that, yeah, in my mind, I just think that would just be a natural.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: And then the other misconception is that, you know, there are kids with, you know, same sex parents all over the city and the reality is that there isn't. There isn't. It's still relatively really small group of people. Yeah, it's still really small. And then they're like, oh, you should know these people. And I'm like, oh, great. But they have like a 2 year old and our kids are 14.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: And so I'm like, they. They have nothing in common with each other.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Exactly.
I just never. I just never really thought. I thought about that. You know, I just think just, you know, New York City in general, I would think everybody was just, I don't know, just. It's just everybody's cohesively working together, you know, melding together and doing whatever, you know.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it happens in pockets, but it's not a uniformed. It's not a uniform thing. And by the way, parenting, so humbling. Like, I have the ego the size of Costco. You could be brought down like 12 pegs in, like five seconds by, like, kids. They're just, you know, I have my 12 year olds just can find a loophole argument in everything. Yeah. I'm either gonna have to work for him when I get older or pull him out of a white collar, you know, prison. Like, but one of those two things I think, you know, funny could be happening. And. And my older one is just, you know, he's. There's. The kids are, I think are just so much smarter than I was when I was their age. I was like a dumb kid. I was just like, like. And they're like, let me tell you about how combustion works. And I'm like, oh. Or they're doing math and I'm running in to the bathroom with my phone to YouTube how to do it.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: And thinking I'm being very quiet about it, but it's like, not so quiet about it.
[00:29:14] Speaker A: They can hear those.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: They can totally hear the thing. And then when I come out, they're like, well, did YouTube tell you how to do the math work? Yeah, I was like, okay, there you go.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: I'm sure a lot of parents do that though, you know, I mean, you know, it's. You know, I. I just wish I had a kid so I could say with my phone, just fix my phone. Just fix it. Fix my computer.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: You know, Exactly. Tech support, you know, because. Tech support, yes. You know, and I have. Thank God for chat GPT now because now I'm taking pictures of my computer, what screen I'm on, and it's walking me through it. It takes me some time and stuff, but I mean, that's, that's so, you know, every step I'm taking a picture and chat. ChatGPT is like, yeah, that's right. That's right. Oh, you got to go do this
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Well, I have to say, every time I have, like. Like a tough day with the kids or, like, a tough morning or, like, something happens, I could go for a walk on the High Line, and literally my shoulders come down, like, almost instantaneously.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: There is something about the High Line that I don't care what mood you're in, it just. Just brings peace to you, makes you happy, brings you joy. It's so beautiful.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: And you don't have to purchase anything. You don't have to perform.
Nothing performative about it. You could be social or you could be solitary.
You could, you know, just bring a book. And instead of just being alone in your apartment, you could read on a bench and people watch.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: And, you know, I'll bring my laptop out and do work out on the sun deck of the High Line.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: And just take a call or a zoom and watch people go by.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I walk it often. I have a tour business, too, so I. People love to walk the High Line. It's one of their favorite things to do.
I walk through. I do live videos on it all the time. I. It's just so peaceful and showing. And I like to discuss a little bit about the Highland that Richard also taught me, too, you know, about how the soil is really not that 18 inches. Yes. It's fast.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: 18 inches and windy up trees and all those.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: And then you have to think through, like, what are these conditions and how does a garden like this thrive? We just held our first plant sale on the High Line. We're going to do another one in the fall, and we just did it. And 750 people came to the plant sale, and we sold, you know, 1300 plants that we propagated from existing plants on the High Line.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: And so somebody was like, oh, my God, this is like gold. Because you can't buy this at a nursery. You can, but you're getting it on the High Line. And people got a chance to take them home and to meet our horticulturalists and hear how you talk about them. And I always think the horticulturalists, you know, are the first curators of the High Line.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Because the, you know, we do have a collection. It's a living collection, and Richard and his team really tend to it, but for me, it's kind of amazing. Do you know the other cool part about this job?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: What?
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Is that I don't have to be an expert in anything. Like, I love art, but I couldn't tell you who an artist was. When I look at a piece of art, I could just tell you If I feel something. But I don't really need to know that because I have Tachilia Alemani and her curatorial team, and that's like taking a graduate class in contemporary art.
And I love gardening, but, like, as a hobby.
But I get to learn about how to really do it and do it well, because I have a whole team
[00:32:18] Speaker A: of horticulturalists who are there gonna say that.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: And I love the built environment and I love thinking about how we interact with the buildings around us. Right. But I'm not an architect by training or an urban planner, but I get to work with some people who are
[00:32:34] Speaker A: some of the best in the city.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: And I. And, you know, and so, you know, I guess maybe like, I really am just like Miss America, and I'm just like, basically just like cutting ribbons and stuff. Maybe like everybody else is doing this and I'm just like staying welcome. And that's the thing.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: But I love it. I kind of say it's really great.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Of the High Line.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
I love that the dreams of a million girls who are more than pretty may come true on the High Line City. You know, I don't know.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: I love it. That's so funny. So let's jump into real quick. I want to discuss marriage equality.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: And what an important part you play with that. Play in that, too. Go ahead.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think for me that professionally, they'll never be anything more important to me that I've done than passing, then helping to pass that bill and helping to draft it and helping to get it done. The night that it passed the New York State assembly for the very first time.
I remember coming back to a hotel that I was staying at in downtown Albany.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Ask you what year this is?
[00:33:36] Speaker B: The early 2006. Ish. 7ish. And it was the.
The hotel was called 74 State, and there was a bar up there and there was a piano in the bar. And when I walked up into the room and it was, you know, past midnight because they took the vote super late, and it was thunderstorming and the lights were flickering. The piano player played New York, New York when we came in. And it was no longer a question of if it was going to happen, but when it was going to happen.
And I think people believe that marriage just happened, but it was a 10 year effort to get it done. And how we did it was. We did, I think, a few things really well. One, we got the legislature to start passing LGBTQ bills that had nothing to do with marriage.
Like a bill to Bury your partner if they die. Because we actually didn't have the right to do that because we weren't next of to make a medical decision for our partner when they were sick. We didn't have the right to do that. So we passed all of these.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Now, even their partners.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Oh, I know the bill about burial happened because it was a woman who passed away. She was with her partner for 20 some odd years. Partner had cancer, she dies. And then her parents who had been estranged from her for 20 some odd years came in, took the body. To this day, they still don't know where she's buried. And I got to call that parent up and say a Republican state senate, a Republican governor and a Democratic assembly thought what you did was so disgusting. They actually passed a bill to stop anybody else from doing it ever again.
And, and so, so we passed that bill. And then we, at the same time we also said, who are the most important actors in the state capitol? Business leaders, people of faith, and labor leaders. And if we end labor unions and if we could either win these folks over or neutralize them, then we win. Because what an elected official who are inherently scared people of losing at the ballot box. What they want to understand is when I go back home to my district, am I getting yelled at at the union hall? Am I getting yelled at or spoken about badly from the pulpit on Sunday? Right. And will people in business leaders say it's bad for business?
And if you could win those folks over, then you win. And we built these massive campaigns to organize those groups of people. So by the time marriage equality got done, there were over 3 million New Yorkers in labor unions who were supporting marriage equality. We had the biggest banks on Wall street and communications firms and whatnot, all in favor of marriage equality. And every state senate district in the, in the state had at least five congregations and clergy across every faith denomination that were supportive of marriage equality. So we had created this scaffolding to allow there to be safety for elected officials to do what they should have done anyway.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: And this is for the state of New York.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: For the state of New York.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: And so this is what year.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: This is in the late 2000, late early 2000. So like 8, 9, 10, 11, which
[00:36:39] Speaker A: led up then to nationwide marriage equality. And did you play a part in that too?
[00:36:44] Speaker B: I mean, to the extent, because, I
[00:36:46] Speaker A: mean, obviously you're a huge part of it in New York, New York State.
[00:36:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And what I think, I think New York itself played a big role in what happened because the Supreme Court doesn't Make decisions unless there's enough of a groundswell. And we call those engine states, like when. When the big engines do it, when California does it in New York does it. And enough Americans live in areas that have this, and the sky hasn't fallen, then the court feels like there's enough ability to pass this right, because there's enough social support for this that it's not going to, like, you know, fall like a lead balloon. And so I was really pleased. And I think the, you know, Governor Andrew Cuomo, who I know a lot of people have lots of feelings about, but gets an enormous amount of credit for getting it done.
And I think he oftentimes gets overlooked for that. And I think there are a lot of elected officials, particularly in communities of color, who were there for us early and who took votes when it wasn't popular to do so. Today, elected officials, you know, people forget.
Years ago, even when I started working for the Pride agenda, people didn't even want an endorsement from us publicly. They wanted our money, but they didn't want our endorsement because they were nervous about what it would take. And so we didn't even get invited into rooms.
And so the landscape has shifted.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: And.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: And now what I, you know, try to preach, I call it like, my gay gospel, which is, like, I think elected officials think of.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: Of.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Of gay folks as an ATM machine, and they come to us and they want our money, and we hand it out as though everybody has the pin.
But not for nothing, what have you done?
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Right?
[00:38:27] Speaker B: You shouldn't get our money unless we have a list of asks for you. So if LGBT health and human service organizations across New York State are still chronically underfunded and our health needs are not being met in our institutions, then we should be asking for a large financial number to make sure that our community can get the health access that we deserve. And we shouldn't give you any support unless you get that for us. If someone's trying to roll back, you know, our rights, if hate crimes are up, I want to know. I don't want you to come to my apartment and tell me you're with me. I want you to actually do something substantively to demonstrate that you're with me. And so I just think the. The bar has gotten too low for us supporting elected officials as a community.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Well, where are we today, then? Are we. Are we solid? And where we are with. With gay marriage, are we.
Is there a risk of things going backwards, or are we going backwards? Like, where. Where do you see this today? And in the Future.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we should have. I think we have a lot to be worried about. I do. And I'm not a hyperbolic guy and I'm not a sky is falling guy. In fact, you know, when Matt proposed to me, one of, he wrote me eight notes and one of the not for always seeing the glass half full. So I'm a half full guy. But I am nervous because, you know, we have a Congress that is not currently a check on the President. We have a Supreme Court that seems to be more activist than any court that we've had and not in any sort of a good way for us. And there is a real concerted attempt. And the people who don't like us are really smart. They're well organized, they're well funded, and we are have to do a better job of organizing our community and making them feel not as safe as they may think that they are.
Because any right that we've won can get rolled back. And we want to make sure that that doesn't happen. And, you know, and just for folks who thought like, you know, Roe v. Wade was never going to get rolled back, and now.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Living several years now with that there, that's a big deal.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Well, you know, I think we've learned, you know, you know, I think both of us been kind of the same age, you know, we saw progression, you know, moving forward, you know, with, with, you know, gay rights and Roe v. Wade. Gay rights. And now things are being rolled back.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: Right. But some of this we're doing to ourselves, I think, too.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: You think so?
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah, because I think we've stopped having conversations with people we don't agree with.
And I think it's really important for us to sit and talk to people, make an intentional point, to talk to people who we don't.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: But I think it's because it's comfortable.
But I want to know, like every night in Albany, when I was doing married lobbying for marriage equality, every night I'd have dinner with people who said terrible things about us and who voted against us. And my friends would say, I don't understand why you're having dinner with them. They hate you. And I said, right, but I want to know why and I want to know what's behind that. Because if I can understand that and unpack that, then I can try to figure out how to make an argument. And what people don't understand, that there's a heads and a heart component to it. The head is like the data and the intelligence, like, about the statistical data, about why we need to be protected. The heartstrings are something that only you and I are going to get if we get to spend time with each other. And you know what? Even if you don't vote for me, how I want you to vote for me or thing that I care about, there you will.
You will not talk badly about me when that issue is debated. I won't say the name of the person. We'll call them John. But there's a member of the city council, John, who, when he was in the city council, he was very religious. And every time a gay rights vote took place, he got up to go to the bathroom because I was his friend, and he couldn't vote against me, but he also couldn't vote for it. So he would just pick up and he would go to the bathroom. That's relational. Right. And so that's for me. And so what's John's last name?
But young people today, and I. And I feel like a lot of them are sort of like, go f yourself. You know, you're terrible, you're awful. You're this. And I don't want to have anything to do with you. And I'm like, don't. This keyboard. Activism is an activism.
[00:42:43] Speaker A: Well, that's what social media has done to us, you know, and I'm guilty of that, too, you know, and plus, I'm getting older and I'm tired and get off my lawn, you know, But I don't know, you know, I mean, I've, you know, I have stepped up, you know, in my 20s and 30s and marched and, you know, gone to D.C. and.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:02] Speaker A: And did what I thought I could do to.
To be a part of it. But like I said, I'm. It's. I. I'm guilty of. I'm tired of talking about it. And. Well, that's the other thing. But we can't stop talking about it
[00:43:14] Speaker B: because when we do, then we get complacent. And. And what I'm hoping is that this next generation whose job it is, because
[00:43:20] Speaker A: I feel like I'm tired of talking about it, tired of explaining, explaining. Totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: But I'm. But. But my thought is, you know, look, we stood on other people's shoulders. We've done our bit. There's this other generation now after us. My hope is that they spend some time asking people, instead of yelling at them or talking to them, talking with them and saying, why do you think the way that you think? How did you get that opinion? Let me share a little bit about My life with you. We get so upset if somebody uses the wrong pronoun and what's it called? And we offer no grace whatsoever for people to make mistakes. And so then we lose potential allies because people would rather not engage with us and fear that they're going to make a mistake. I think we have to be a lot more forgiving with people and to say, hey, I'm going to meet you where you are, and I'm not going to demand that you're here before I start engaging with you. I think that's provocative to a lot of people.
But for me, I think I have found it the most effective way to win legislatively and politically.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: You know what? I didn't realize I needed to hear this because I didn't expect this from this podcast.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: Why?
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Because I. I have shut down and I've stopped talking about it or debating. People are arguing because I'm tired talking about it. But we can't be tired. We have to keep talking.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And. But you don't have to necessarily feel. Yeah, no, of course. Like. And by the way, it's totally fine. I'm tired a lot.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: About it also.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: And so I think I sometimes hide behind my kids and say, well, actually, the. The best gay thing I can do right now is to, like, go and just be a good dad to my kids and model that. But, you know, it's even weirder. I still think about it.
Like, that kid who was masking or closeted still comes out every once in a while right before, like, when we go out to dinner. We travel a lot with our kids. Our kids. We make sure super well dressed when we go anyplace and super well behaved because everybody looks when you walk into a restaurant, particularly not in New York.
[00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:30] Speaker B: Who are these two guys? What are their relationships to the kids? How are they interacting with the kids? And what happens is they start looking. First they start looking at you, then they whisper to the people at their table, then they look over at you and. And inevitably they know that they've been staring too long. So somebody comes over at. When they're getting up to leave and they go, you have lovely children and it's a thing. But it's because they've been staring at us for the last hour and wondering like, oh, they're gay parents. And I tell my kids, the reality is you gotta behave in the restaurant because people are looking at us because they don't see families like us. And that's. That's a different sort of pressure. And just like in the civil rights movement, you know, young men and women who sat in those lunch counters, wore suits and ties and pretty dresses because it was important about how you look. I believe that it's also important for the next generation of people, for people. It will be easier for the next generation of gay parents when people get used to seeing gay parents, which puts an extra responsibility on those of us
[00:46:30] Speaker A: with older kids right now. Also amazing for someone who's young.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:36] Speaker A: Who's lgbtq.
And they see you and your husband with their children, and they're like, wow, that's.
They're probably. Maybe they can't talk about it with their family yet, or they're not out yet, but that gives them hope, and you guys inspire them.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Well, look, when I was growing up, when we were in third grade, my twin sister's third grade teacher told my mom during the parent teacher conference that he. And his name was Mr. Harding. And I just want to call his name into the room because he was a very special guy and said that he had this gay cancer, that nobody knew what it was, and that his parents had disowned him. And my mother ended up spending, like, an hour and a half with him and that by fourth grade, he was dead.
So he passed away the summer between our third and fourth grade year. So I grew up closeted, thinking if.
If I come out, I'm either dying early or my family's walking away from me.
Every morning I wake up, I think to myself, true story. I look at Matt. Because I get up first.
I look up, I say thank you to God, and then I think to myself, I've been with someone for 24 years.
It's Matt. We have two kids, which I never thought was possible. I thought being gay meant you couldn't have kids.
Matt works as a chief legal officer at a financial services firm. I remember the New Yorker magazine or the New York magazine cover where it said, the pink ceiling for Wall street where you couldn't go a certain level if you were gay because you had to be in the closet. And I get to run the high line, you know, here. That is not what I thought in comac my life would be.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: Because I thought that would be impossible. So the arc of the universe is long. It does. Does bend towards justice. But this pride, I hope people remember that it doesn't bend on its own. It bends because people like you and me make it bend and force it to bend. And as much as it bends, it wants to snap back. Our job is to keep pushing forward.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:44] Speaker B: Even A little bit.
Just stops it from snapping back.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Wow.
You're very good speaker.
Very inspiring.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: If I'm passionate about it, ask me about combustion engines and you won't find this passion.
[00:49:00] Speaker A: No, this is really interesting. This is a really good conversation.
Yeah. I love that you're here and talking, and I can feel your passion about what you do. It's amazing. And your family and everything and what you do to help make other people's lives better, you know, so.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: Well, thanks. Well, this is going to be a big fight, you know, that we're in for the next several years and people are going to get tired. And I would just say when you need a respite, you know, make the High Line not a place that you just go to when your family comes to town. Make it a place that you go to when you just need to sort of, you know, pull yourself back together again.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: This year, there's more activities for Pride Month than the last few years, correct?
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Yeah. We usually had just done so a project with the Generations Project where they did gay storytelling, retelling. And this year we decided, let's go do this big. First of all, I want, you know, queer people of color to feel like the High Line's a place for them, too. Which is why we're partnering with Zesty World, which is a party platform that really brings the party now to the High Line, but has a big following in a community.
Me, too.
I know it feels spicy. So I was like, that's going to be fun. And then. And again, all. Everything you can find on our website.
But then also these piano bar nights, I just think if they were.
[00:50:15] Speaker A: I love it. We'll be there.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: And a real shout out to Steinway, who gave us the piano, and to the Shubert organization that's paying for it. And to Lance Horn at clubcoming, who's producing our nights for us. So just, like, really fun.
Like, just. There's nothing more serious. There's nothing more to it, except it's fun.
[00:50:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: Like, that's it.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: That's the end of the enterprise.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: Good. That's what I love. Five questions. What's your favorite New York neighborhood?
My friend?
[00:50:42] Speaker B: My favorite New York neighborhood is hard to choose. It's like picking from your children.
I think the prettiest neighborhood in New York is the West Village. I was just wondering, is the West Village the. I think the best people watching in New York and, like, just dynamic. What people are wearing street clothing is the Lower east side, which is where I live.
And the hottest skies are the walking on the William Running over the Williamsburg Bridge. I mean, they're just. It's like the best eye candy. That's so good.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: I don't think I've ever really been on the.
[00:51:20] Speaker B: I walk it once a week, back and forth.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: And it's just like. It's just great.
[00:51:24] Speaker A: It's great eye candy.
[00:51:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:25] Speaker A: That's hilarious. I love it. Favorite NYC restaurant.
I know, it's a toughie.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: Oh, wow. I'm going to get, like, in trouble a lot.
But I think I love right now Ernesto's. I think I go in waves. But right now I'm loving Ernesto's, which is on East Broadway and Jefferson street on the Lower east side, which is a Basque restaurant.
And it's really good. It's named Ernesto's. Ernest Hemingway.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: Oh, nice.
[00:51:55] Speaker B: Named after Ernest Hemingway. And it has like the most delicious pinchos and croquettes, and it's really delicious.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: Now I'm hungry.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:05] Speaker A: Favorite NYC view.
[00:52:07] Speaker B: The view.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: Where do you go for the best views in New York City?
[00:52:10] Speaker B: Oh, I think the High Line. By far. By far.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Hey, what's your favorite section? Like? Do you have a favorite section? Can I tell you mine?
[00:52:16] Speaker B: Yeah, tell me.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: I like. Well, there's construction there right now, right where the cars and everything are. But it's like Midway and you're looking south and it's like the grassy area.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: Looking towards the Lantern Building.
[00:52:30] Speaker B: Looking to the. Isn't that pretty? And the sculptures come up, so. And the. Everything grows so lush. It's right in that area by the Lantern House building, by the way. Also, great people watching because the people who. I know this one guy's schedule backwards and forwards because I can look into his apartment window all the time.
[00:52:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:52:46] Speaker B: And his girlfriend goes to work, or wife. I don't know what she is. And he must work at home. But I can watch him play his video games thing. And then he takes a nap around midday. And then about 4 o' clock, he starts cleaning everything up because she must be coming home later in the thing. But it's hilarious. He's been doing it for years.
[00:53:02] Speaker A: Wait till he hears this podcast.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think my favorite part on the High Line right now is the area around the Plinth because we have Tuan's beautiful Buddha statue that's there, which is absolutely spectacular.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: I love it. It's beautiful. Yep.
Favorite hidden gem most tourists don't know
[00:53:23] Speaker B: about is Nikki Tesla's apartment, which is in the basement of the New Yorker Hotel. He spent his Last few years there and there's an exhibit. There's an exhibit with his artif articles from that he owned and he lived his last lives at the New York last years in the New Yorker Hotel. And you could go and it's open to the public and nobody knows about it.
[00:53:46] Speaker A: I had no idea.
And lastly, most New York thing you've
[00:53:49] Speaker B: done recently, I went with 19 people to see the Mets versus the Marlins on Saturday and we took our nieces, all of whom now have graduated college. So like, and their significant others and our boys, and we went to see a Mets game that's pretty cool. At Citi Field.
[00:54:07] Speaker A: How do you feel about the Knicks fever right now in the city?
[00:54:10] Speaker B: I am not a basketball fan, but I have gotten into the fever.
So I stayed up late and watched the game and I'm glad I did.
[00:54:18] Speaker A: Very cool.
[00:54:18] Speaker B: Because I started. My heart started to sink a little bit and I was like, oh. And then, then I was really happy.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: I just love how the city's going nuts. It's. It's really cool.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, think about this summer, by the way. The summer's gonna be pretty great, right? We're gonna have like, the Knicks are in the playoffs, FIFA is coming here for The World Cup 250th anniversary sail tall ships, and Macy's is doing fireworks both on the east river and the Hudson river. Like, kind of like a pretty good New York is.
[00:54:43] Speaker A: It's our year this year.
[00:54:44] Speaker B: It's our year this year. I think this is like a really good year for us.
[00:54:47] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:54:47] Speaker B: We need it.
[00:54:48] Speaker A: What do you think about Mom Dhommi?
[00:54:49] Speaker B: I think he has really big, ambitious plans. And I think. And I think affordability is the right issue to be thinking about.
And.
And my hope is that he builds a large enough tent and gets everybody in that tent rowing in the same direction. Because the problems we face in the city are so big that one person or group of people is going to be able to solve them on their own. We need everybody.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: Nicely said. Really nicely said. I like that.
So, Alan, before we let you go, we here at the New Yorkers Podcast want to know what it means to you, Alan Van Capel, to be a New Yorker.
[00:55:30] Speaker B: I think to be a New Yorker to me feels like the greatest gift that I could have.
Because I think New York is not a place, it's an idea. And that idea is constantly changing and being shaped and challenged. And to live in a place that's as dynamic as New York is, to be able to walk down the street to have a conversation with somebody who has done something interesting at any moment, it's to reimagine how you're thinking about something. You could think about something one way for years and suddenly be exposed to different ideas or people or art or culture. And there's an energy here that I think, you know, just keeps us young.
And I was saying right before we started this podcast that I feel like I'm 51, but I feel like my parents looked so much older at 51 than we. Than we look in our 50s. And I think it's because they didn't live in the city. I think people who live in the city are younger. We're walking more. We're not in our cars.
[00:56:30] Speaker A: We're.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: We're seeing each other.
[00:56:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:32] Speaker B: And. And I'm excited to retire here.
[00:56:35] Speaker A: I love that.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:37] Speaker B: I think it's a great place to grow old.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: Great answers. Well, you know what's so real funny? Like the Golden Girls.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Speaker A: You know, they're like younger than they were in the.
[00:56:45] Speaker B: Younger than us.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: And.
[00:56:47] Speaker B: And they look so old back then, but they really. They were all in. They were all 50.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: I think, in that thing.
[00:56:53] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:56:53] Speaker B: Crazy.
[00:56:54] Speaker A: Well, you're the best. Thank you.
[00:56:55] Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me.
[00:56:56] Speaker A: Let's. Let's do this again. I hope so. Hop on the podcast again. Truly, I would love it. And chat and talk about, you know, fun stuff and all this stuff that needs to be talked about. Right. Thank you for joining us today for this week's episode of the New Yorkers Podcast. Alan, why don't you let everyone know where they can find you on social media?
[00:57:14] Speaker B: They can find us on social
[email protected] Nice.
[00:57:19] Speaker A: And is there an. Do you know if there's Facebook or Instagram? If not, I think it's just the high line. Right. Highline nyc. Awesome. Yep.
Once again, I'm your host, Kelly Kopp, also known as New York City Cop, all across my social media.
[00:57:32] Speaker B: And please like and subscribe to the New Yorkers podcast and you can follow the New Yorkers on social media at the New Yorkers Podcast.
[00:57:39] Speaker A: You can leave a rating or a comment to let us know how you're enjoying the show. We read through all your comments and dm. So please, we would love to hear from you. Thank you. Terry Mary Wolwein and Carol Ann Wildly and Carol Ann and Kevin, I have done tours with and they are amazing.
I love them, but I love everyone. But just to let you know, but your kind words on the last episode if you want to be featured at the end of an episode, leave a rating on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify or YouTube.
[00:58:05] Speaker B: And thank you Gotham Center NYC History, Rosie Kiernan1 and CB Homie IG for your comments on Instagram.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: I'm really impressed with how you set all those perfectly.
Have a lovely day everybody. We'll see you next time.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: Goodbye.
This is the last stop on this train.
[00:58:24] Speaker A: Everyone. Please leave the train.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Thank you for riding with MTA New York City Transit.
